Ep. 312: How This Expat Helps Women Over 30 Work and Move Abroad with Cepee Tabibian
In this episode, I speak with Cepee Tabibian who is the founder of She Hit Refresh, a global community for women aged 30 and over who want to break free from a life of routine and make a move abroad. She is the author of I’m Outta Here! An American’s Ultimate Visa Guide to Living in Europe.
Through her community of over 10,000 members, Cepee empowers women who are looking to rediscover themselves and reinvent their lives abroad, but often feel stuck because they don’t know where to begin.
Listen on to find out how Cepee has been able to help women work and live abroad.
Listen Below:
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Transcription:
Debbie:
Hey everyone, thank you so much for being here. I am really excited to catch up with my guest today. I’m here with Cepee. Hi Cepee, how are you?
Cepee:
Hey, Debbie. I’m doing great. So excited to be back.
Debbie:
Yes. Thank you so much for joining us. Again. For those who have not heard your story, can you tell us a little bit more about you and why you live an offbeat life?
Cepee:
Yeah, sure. So, my name is Cepee. I moved from Texas to Spain back in 2015 at the age of 35. So I can’t believe so much time has passed. I’m now 43 and still living here in Spain. And along my journey I realized that there just weren’t a lot of resources for women of a certain age, like women over 30 who really wanted to, to change their life in a big way. By moving abroad and on my journey, I’ve been able to create my own business that now I help other women move abroad through my business, She Hit Refresh. So for me, just moving abroad has been such a transformative experience. I’ve been able to do things and create things I could have never foreseen. And so my big advocate about people moving abroad for many reasons, but definitely to kind of reinvent yourself along the way.
Debbie:
Well it’s kind of interesting when you and I first talked the whole, not just moving abroad but working remotely was still really foreign to a lot of people, to most people. And then the pandemic happened and now everyone’s like, “Yay, we wanna do this, we wanna stay doing this.”, and now I feel like there’s a lot more opportunities for people to actually move overseas because now you have the opportunity to pretty much work wherever you are as long as you have, you know, the internet, obviously.
Cepee:
Totally. Actually, yeah, when we had talked, I don’t know when that was, 2017, 20 8, I was, I had just I think scored my first kind of remote job and I remember thinking that, yeah, it was very difficult to find those kind of opportunities and I was shocked when it finally, when someone finally gave me my big break into the world of working remotely. And you’re right, from the pandemic. You know, companies went remote overnight, right? Companies who said they couldn’t have done that before, figured out a way. And I think that coupled with these opportunities to move abroad with digital nomad visas and just people being more aware of how they can untether their lives and really be mobile, not having to be in the US, and I say in the US cause that’s kind of the biggest market I work with, and I think also just everything that’s been going on in the US people are like, “I want out.”. So, never has it been easier, I tell people, to move abroad than now. And definitely we’re seeing the, you know, the growth and the demand on people wanting to make that move and, and take their job with them.
Debbie:
Yeah, absolutely. There’s definitely so much more opportunities for, for us if we wanna take it, you know. And for you, Cepee, why is it Europe? Like why did you decide to move yourself there? Why not South America? Why not Asia? Cause there’s pretty much now we don’t really have any borders in terms of like where we can move ourselves because like we had mentioned, there’s so much more opportunities as remote workers.
Cepee:
Yeah, that’s a great question. Well I think, you know, I had started traveling at an early age and I just had that Goldilocks feeling, right? Where you kind of try out different things and some places maybe aren’t it, and then you find your place in the world. So for me, from a very young age in my travel, Spain was just that place in the world that always attracted me that I felt very at home in. And it just felt like the right spot for me when I was thinking of moving abroad. Of course Spain was at the top of my list, but I had also had considered other places in the world. I was looking at Asia, I really wanted to go to Hong Kong, so I was considering that and then, you know, my mother’s from Colombia so I was also thinking about maybe spending time time there to get to know her country better. And my dad’s from Iran so I had considered maybe spending some time there too. So there were some places in the mix, but when I really thought about what my long term goals were and the lifestyle that I wanted to have, Spain just made sense to me. And so, that’s why I chose Spain. And also the proximity of all of these diverse countries and cultures in Europe, I think, was also very attractive to just be able to hop on a plane and be somewhere completely different in less than an hour.
Debbie:
Yeah, I mean, I’m really curious about that, like tell us about what it’s like to actually live in Europe because it’s true, you do have a lot of opportunities to even travel within that area, within the country and then other parts of the country of Europe. I mean we could do that in the United States too, but I feel like the diversity is not as varied. I mean, not to say it’s not, cause I do like love all of the different sceneries and things that the United States has, but I feel like in Europe it’s so different, right? So what is that like for you? Do you actually get yourself to travel out of Spain? Do you get to see other countries? What’s that like for you?
Cepee:
Yeah, you know, you bring up a good point. I think here for me in Spain, everything just feels more accessible. I mean, I’m from Texas so my state is bigger than the country I live in.
Debbie:
Yeah.
Cepee:
And there’s so much diversity just within Spain. There’s, you know, different cultures and languages and like, you know, topographies, but it’s just so accessible. I don’t have a car here but you know, I can hop on a train and be in a different city in a few hours. And again, like I mentioned the flights and they’re very affordable so that’s great. And you know, going down to Morocco is very easy and neighboring countries. But in terms of taking advantage of that, definitely I would say in the early years that I moved here I was traveling quite a bit, to, you know, visit friends that I knew in different countries in Europe and just doing solo trips by myself.
But I think like anywhere you kind of get into your routine, right? You know, with my job and work and saving money. So, I think in the past few years and also covid, I haven’t taken advantage of it as much as I would like, but I’m starting to, again, I just went last week to a video content creator conference in Malta and next month I’m going to a travel bloggers conference in Greece. So there are lots of opportunities to do cool things and I think not only is it much more accessible, I think it’s a lot cheaper to do it here than in the US.
Debbie:
Yeah, because I remembered when I used to travel around there, I would be in London cause my best friend used to live there and then I would stay with her and then I’d just choose like a flight to somewhere cheap and it would be so inexpensive. But here in the United States, like you could just go down south and so like the prices are ridiculous. Like sometimes it’s the same cost as going to South America or even sometimes Europe. It’s pretty crazy.
Cepee:
Definitely. No, it is. Every time I go back to the US I’m kind of spread out. I have family in New Jersey, I go to Texas and as well as California. So I’m hopping on planes a lot and those flights just kill me of how expensive they are when I’m used to these European flight prices.
Debbie:
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s just like you had mentioned, it’s just so accessible to go to different countries because the length of the United States is huge. That going from one state to the next, it’s like going to a different country. It’s pretty, it’s pretty incredible in that sense. So what made you decide to stay in Spain, Cepee? Because as you know, you said there’s a lot of different countries around you, there’s other areas that you were considering. Why did you stay in Spain for this long? Why not explore somewhere else that’s different?
Cepee:
Yeah, I think for a few reasons. I mean, one, like I said, I was very attracted to Spain. It felt at home here. But I would say probably at the five year mark of living here, I was actually thinking of maybe trying somewhere else. You know, I had gone to Berlin and was just, you know, I just in love with the diversity of a city like Berlin, which is something that I felt lacked in in Madrid where I was living. So, I had considered maybe moving to other places, job opportunities in Spain aren’t great. So, you know, I had been looking for work here and that was very limited, so I thought maybe, you know, another city would be able to offer more opportunities. But at the end of the day, another big reason why I stayed here despite maybe wanting to go to a more diverse city or city that had more options is that also I wanted to get residency here in Europe and I was on the track to get citizenship and so I really couldn’t just get up, pick up and move somewhere else because I would’ve had to maybe start over with my paperwork.
So, that was a big reason too, to stay here kind of after the five year mark when I got the itch to see somewhere else. And, and now I’ve met my partner here and I’ve changed cities, so still happy to be here in Spain, but I think there’s still the itch to, to want to travel. So I try to balance that with, you know, spending a few months out of the year outside of Spain to get that fix.
Debbie:
Yeah. And I think you just create a home for yourself and once you put your roots it’s harder to to leave and start all over again. Especially, if you love where you are and you have people there. And I think that’s what makes a place is, you know, it becomes a home as are the people that are there with you.
Debbie:
Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes it’s like you just meet the right people and you don’t want to leave and it’s like, “Ah, I don’t want to.”. .
Cepee:
Right?
Debbie:
So you had mentioned getting your citizenship after five years of being in Spain. How are you able to do that? Because especially if you adore the place you want to stay there. How hard was it to, to get that? Is it available for everyone or is there a specific thing that you need to do to get to that track?
Cepee:
Mm-hmm, yes. I’m sure a lot of people are interested to know how to do this. So for me, I was kind of in a special subset of people who qualify for a fast tracked Spanish citizenship. So, in general for a US citizen living in Spain, you have to live here 10 years legally, before you can apply for citizenship. So, I didn’t have to go down that route because as I mentioned before, my mother is from Colombia, so I was able to acquire a Colombian citizenship. So here in Spain, Spain has an agreement with certain countries in Latin America and also Puerto Rico, which is the territory of the US, that if you are a citizen from any of the, you know, countries that qualify, you can fast track your citizenship, which means, you know, after only living in Spain for two years, legally you can apply for citizenship, you don’t have to wait the 10 years. So, that was my case. Like I had, when I first moved to Spain, I was on a student visa and student visas do not qualify for this path. So I had lost some time changing visas but once I had been here for two years legally on the right visa, then I applied for citizenship and I got it. So that not only gives me the opportunity to live in Spain, but you know, I have that freedom of movement to be able to live and work anywhere in Europe.
Debbie:
Oh, that’s pretty amazing and also that’s interesting that they have that with Puerto Rico. Now, Puerto Ricans are technically Americans, I mean they have US passports, right?
Cepee:
Yes.
Debbie:
Oh, that’s pretty amazing and also that’s interesting that they have that with Puerto Rico. Now, Puerto Ricans are technically Americans, I mean they have US passports, right? Yes. So how is that different than like if you were living in mainland in the United States? Like do you have to, how do you prove like,
Cepee:
Yes.
Debbie:
Do you need like an address in Puerto Rico? Like, how does that work?
Cepee:
Yes, I think there may be a gray area, but for sure the black and white is if you were born in Puerto Rico or if you have a parent or grandparent who is from there, then you can qualify. But I think I’ve heard, I’ve seen a gray area on the internet. You know, if you have an address or have lived in Puerto Rico for a certain amount of time, even though you weren’t born there, that you may have an in, don’t quote me on that, but typically for, and the Philippines also qualifies too, I should mention. These are all former territories of Spain. So if you took, just to clarify for people, so if you have citizenship from one of the qualifying countries and some of those you know are Venezuela, Colombia, as I mentioned, Dominican Republic.
But also if you don’t have that, you know, at the time that I found this information out, I did not have Colombian citizenship, but my mother was a Colombian and my grandmother was, so if you, you can check to see if you can qualify to get nationality through your parent or grandparent and then you can use that to apply for Spanish citizenship. But I do wanna stress, cause people always bring this up when I mention it, it doesn’t, you don’t get automatic Spanish citizenship. You do have to find a way to first live in Spain for two years legally, before you can apply for this, for Spanish citizenship.
Debbie:
So when you say legally, it just means that you live there and you go through the same process, right? Like you get your visa and then, what about if you’re a remote worker, like your company is in the United States or outside of Spain, can you still do that? Can you still live in work there as a remote worker?
Cepee:
Yes. Oh, I love this question cause this is like a fluid area right now. So, I was working as a remote worker here in Spain and I was here on a visa called the non-lucrative visa. It’s almost like a retirement visa. And so to qualify for this visa, you have to have X amount of US dollars in, you know, you have to show that you have enough money to support yourself. So you can do that by showing your savings. So that’s what I did. But in 2019 the consulates in the US no longer, you know, were approving people who stated that they were working remotely. So they really wanted to discourage remote workers from acquiring this type of visa. They really just wanted retirees. But as of December of last year, Spain has come out with a digital nomad visa. So, if you, right now it’s very fluid, so the information’s changing, but right now, if you’re working for an employer, unfortunately you can’t qualify for this visa. If you’re a US citizen yet, that may change. But if you’re a contractor freelancer, you can definitely work from Spain on the digital nomad visa and you will be legal here and this will qualify for your path to residency in Spain and also, you know, to the path of acquiring Spanish citizenship if that’s something you wanna do later on.
Debbie:
Yeah, there’s so many things to think about when,
Cepee:
Right?
Debbie:
when you do this because it’s like when you first start working remotely, you get really excited and then you decide you wanted to move somewhere and then all of these legalities come into place and you really have to understand all of this or you can get in trouble. So yeah, we have to think about that.
Cepee:
Yes.
Debbie:
but it’s, it’s not a bad, it’s not a bad problem to have, you know?
Cepee:
Hey, at least there’s options. You just have to, you know, you have to just play the long game because I mean, in a move abroad you’re gonna hit roadblocks, obstacles, it’s gonna be frustrating, but it’s just part of the journey. So if you can accept that, I think you’ll have a good shot of making your long term plans, you know, come to fruition.
Debbie:
Yes, absolutely. And if any of you are interested in learning more about this, we do have an extended interview with Cepee where she’s gonna talk more about how to really take your remote job abroad and also how to move to Europe as as an American. So, I’m gonna be definitely curious about that Cepee. So, I’m excited to talk to you about that on our extended interview. But now that you are in Spain, you’ve built up a community, you started this a few years ago and I think when I spoke to you, you had just started your, you know, your Facebook group and you were doing really well and now you came out with books and you have retreats. How did you grow? Like, obviously like it’s amazing and incredible, but what was that journey like for you? Was it hard to find other women who were thinking the same way? And I pretty much know the answer to this because you have you have a lot of women in your group who were really interested in this process.
Cepee:
Yes. Thank you for asking cause I love to pull, you know, pull back the curtain and let people know that, you know, I think we all know, finding success is a lot of work and there’s been a lot of ups and downs on the journey. So yeah, in 2017 I just had a lot of people asking me how I was able to move abroad later in life. And so I started this Facebook group and from the get go it just grew really quickly. And in the first year we had 4,000 members in the group. And so, and you know, in this community of women over 30 who wanted to move abroad were just not demanding, but they were asking for resources to help them. And so we started a blog, we started a podcast and also really early on someone asked, “Have you ever thought about having a retreat? Cause I would love to come.”.
And so actually like my first big sale item was a retreat. I kind of like did it backwards, but we, I think within a year and a half of existing, we had a retreat in Morocco that sold out. And from there that’s where I think things really grew. It went from just, you know, starting this community as a hobby. It was never a business idea to seeing the potential of really being able to impact so many women out there, but also kind of shift into making this my full-time job, which took many years to get there. I was working full-time for other people while building up my side hustle. And it wasn’t until last year that I kind of gave up my day job to go all in. So yeah, so like you said, since just starting the community, we’ve had retreats, we have the podcast as I mentioned, but also this year I’ve also launched a bootcamp, a four day training to help women over 30 just realize that a move abroad is totally possible for them and get them to start taking action, cause I think we just have to, there’s so many misconceptions or just limiting beliefs about if we’re able to even make a move abroad, and then also a longer course to help people who are ready to move abroad but really just don’t know how to do it. So handhold them through the process and it’s really just been a journey of listening to my community, seeing where, what their needs are and where they need help and how I can, you know, create something to help them along the way.
Debbie:
Yeah, and I believe there’s definitely a niche there that wasn’t really being met that you saw and you also experienced because I think when people think about, you know, making a change like moving abroad or even working remotely and traveling, they just think about, you know, people in their early twenties or people in their twenties who are doing this. But more and more people who are 30 and above really want this lifestyle and if anything, they probably have the means, more means to do it right? And I think you, you come at a point in your life where you also need a change and it’s so much more, I guess evident when, when you’re older what you need because you’ve already experienced so many different things to do that. But it can be a really scary process, especially if you don’t see anybody around you who is doing it as well.
Cepee:
100%. I mean that’s why the community really existed to just show people that there are other people like you. I mean, I know myself back in 2015 when I was 35 and wanting to do this, I mean people thought I was kind of crazy. And if you really listen to what other people, what they’re projecting onto you, I think a lot of people are just projecting their fears of like, you know, “Aren’t you too old to do this? Isn’t this something, you know, you do when you’re in college or gap year?”, and so I felt very alone and also doubted my decision even though I went through with it. And once I moved abroad, I realized there were so many other women just like me in their thirties, forties and beyond, that have done this and are doing this. And the community really serves as a space to validate women’s feelings and and dreams.
And really I think that is a big game changer for people just to see like, “Oh my gosh, I’m not alone, I’m not crazy. This idea isn’t crazy.”. But I think on top of that, like you said, there just wasn’t really resources for people like us. You know, a lot of, maybe a little bit more so now, but definitely at the time it was geared towards, you know, young college students that were taking time off or people who were maybe were retiring abroad, but not for someone who actually is kind of in the middle, has responsibilities and doesn’t really know exactly how to untether themselves, but is definitely craving a big change in life, but scared to do it because one, like you said, maybe they just don’t know anyone who has done this. They can feel very isolated and they just don’t know how to do it.
Debbie:
Yeah, I mean one of the biggest things is really fear. You know, it’s the, the fear of the unknown. The fear that you may fail, the fear that it may not go as well as you thought it would be because we, you know, we see this a lot or we think it’s going to be great, especially now, I know it’s overly stated, but social media definitely gives you a different glimpse of the real world sometimes but, I think it’s definitely something that even if you don’t like it, you should just do at least once in your life. If it’s something that you’re craving, of course, and I know a lot of people that are pretty happy with just staying put, but if you’re craving it, it’s definitely something to try, cause you never know, you may hate it, you may love it.
Cepee:
That’s what I always say too. You’re exactly right. I think, you know, if it’s an idea that’s definitely been on your mind for a long time, I mean that idea I think is coming to you for a reason. Not everybody wants to move abroad and that’s totally okay, but if that’s something you’ve been thinking about, I mean, a lot of the women I work with, they’ve been thinking about this for 10, 15, 20 years plus. And really, I like to encourage people to give life to, you know, their dreams and those ideas because you never know what’s behind there. And of course you can always go back to your old life, if it isn’t what you thought,
Debbie:
Mm-hmm.
Cepee:
if it doesn’t work out the way that you wanted it to. But I like to remind people that you don’t have to have the perfect plan when you go, like you need a plan, but you can pivot along the way, which is what I did. I mean, I moved to Spain and I was teaching English that first year knowing that I didn’t want to do that, but not knowing how I was going to change my situation. And I figured it out along the way. So, you can definitely pivot, once you make that leap. So, also don’t get tied to like, “It has to be just this way.”, there are lots of ways to make this happen and if it’s something you want to do, bet on yourself, try it out. And if it doesn’t work, no worries. Like you have had that experience and you’ll always have that and you can go back to, you know, your home and your life and your job back in the US.
Debbie:
Yeah, absolutely. I think the key thing is flexibility because it’s most likely not going to happen the way you think it is. That’s just life. I feel like everyday, you know, and like you have these plans and then life happens and then it’s completely different and it takes you into twists and turns that you never even knew that could be a part of your dream which is kind of incredible in that way. And that’s what makes life so sweet.
Cepee:
Yes. That’s the magic of life is that unknown and just the possibilities, right? When you’re moving abroad you are definitely starting from scratch. So, there are so many possibilities at your doorstep and I think the power of moving abroad allows you to really shed off these identities that we get stuck in when we’re in our day to day, our routine, our comfort zone. We really are creatures of habit and we don’t really play that much in life anymore, I think as we get older and so you find when you move abroad, you just become this person that tries different things because it’s just a part of navigating a whole new life and you can really tap into different parts of yourself that maybe have gone dormant for a long time or just realize that you have these interests that you never had and get to know yourself in a new way.
And I think that is so powerful to do, especially later in life. It almost gives you, yeah, like a refresh, you know, with my company She Hit Refresh, that’s what it’s all about, refreshing your life and giving yourself just the opportunity to live life in a different way and maybe in a way that’s in more in alignment with how you want to live your life. Because sometimes we also, we just get, you know, caught up in this path of success that society has put for us and we get stuck on the hamster wheel and we don’t know how to get off. And moving abroad really allows you to just take yourself out of that and try something different.
Debbie:
Yeah, I mean it’s kind of a once in a lifetime thing that you should do if it is calling to you. And I don’t know, I just see life as like a big journey and if you don’t try anything else, like we don’t know what’s going to happen, you know, and if this is really it, why not just do as much as you can and live as much as you can in this world because we may never have another chance. So, I don’t know, that’s just how I think about it. I think especially when you’re young, like we’re never going to be as young as we are right now, so, and life takes you in different paths, so you don’t know when an opportunity like this will happen again. So…
Cepee:
Yes. Oh my gosh, can we just celebrate what you just said because I love to remind people of that age is a big part of the work that I do. People always feel like they’re too old. I mean, when I was 35 I was like, “Oh my god, I’m so old doing this.”, and now I’m 43 and I look back, “I’m like, I was so young, what was I talking about?”.
Debbie:
Yeah.
Cepee:
Yes. Oh my gosh, can we just celebrate what you just said because I love to remind people of that age is a big part of the work that I do. People always feel like they’re too old. I mean, when I was 35 I was like, “Oh my god, I’m so old doing this.”, and now I’m 43 and I look back, “I’m like, I was so young, what was I talking about?”. Yes. Like I would love to be 35 again and when I get caught up with that at 43, I tell myself just what you said, like, “This is the youngest I’m ever going to be, in a few years I’m going to wish I was the age I am now.”. And so I tell people that all the time, like, “You are not too old to do this. You are the youngest you’re ever going to be. You are the perfect age to do this.”.
Debbie:
Yep, exactly. And yeah, 10 years from now, you’re going to wish you were your age right now and you are going to wish that you had done something, because I feel like when we do that, every time we think about that it’s like, “Oh, I wish I had done it then.”,
Cepee:
Mm-hmm.
Debbie:
like what if this is the time when you wish you had done it? So…
Cepee:
Yep. Yeah. I mean, but I get it, it’s hard because I think people, other than the fear people are also waiting for the right time, the perfect conditions. And I think with anything in life, there’s no perfect time to do it. You have to always start before you’re ready cause if you wait until you have all the information, you just end up, you know, researching endlessly and then 2, 5, 10 years goes by and you still haven’t done the thing. So really I think you just got to do it.
Debbie:
I think so I’m a huge believer of taking action and that could be detrimental sometimes because it’s like very limited research but taking action. But you know, you feel a lot but hey, you did something.
Cepee:
Right? And it’s by taking action that you find clarity, it’s by taking action that the path unfolds. You can’t really think yourself through the path. You just have to take that first step.
Debbie:
Yeah. And you know, that’s a different way of learning and you’re actually seeing if it works or if it doesn’t, rather than just reading what other people have done or what’s being said out there because sometimes it works for other people and sometimes it doesn’t work for you so you just never know until you try it.
Cepee:
Yeah, totally. Totally.
Debbie:
So, thank you so much, Cepee for being here with us. I had asked you this question years ago, but I’m wondering if it has changed since then, what legacy would you like to leave and what do you want to be remembered for?
Cepee:
Oof, these are such deep, heavy questions, oh wow. Well, I think the legacy I would like to leave is maybe just that, you know, I help and inspired other people to live life on their terms. I mean, that’s how I choose to live my life and if I can just help others in any way, it doesn’t even have to be just moving abroad, but just to, you know, choose you and choose how you want to spend your time here. If I can help anyone just do that instead of picking the status quo, I think I would be happy and something that you said I’d like to be remembered for?
Debbie:
Yes.
Cepee:
Yeah. Is, I guess just maybe just hand in hand with that being someone who was true to themselves and chose to live life, you know, by the beat of their own drum and was someone who was really proud of the life they lived, you know, by the time it gets to the end of this road.
Debbie:
I love that. And you are already doing it, Cepee, so there you go. If our listeners want to learn more about you, Cepee, where can they find you?
Cepee:
Definitely. So, we’re She Hit Refresh on everything. So, if you’re a woman, aged 30 and over, please come join our Facebook group at She Hit Refresh. For anyone out there, check out our website, we have tons of resources on the blog and then we’re on all the socials. So, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, you can find a lot of information there on how to move abroad, how to do this later in life as well, yeah, I think that’s everything. Oh, and the podcast as well, She Hit Refresh.
Debbie:
Perfect. Thank you so much, Cepee.
Cepee:
Thank you so much for having me on, Debbie, it’s been such a pleasure.
Listen to Cepee’s extended interview about how to take your remote job abroad.
What you’ll find:
In this extended interview, Cepee talks about how Americans can move and take their remote jobs abroad.
